This is coolbert:
Conclusion.
Again from a comment to the blog by Steiner that cost of the entire "Vee" program NOT greater than the American Manhattan [atomic bomb] project:
"First of all, the wartime Reichsmark was not a convertible currency, it was for internal accounting only and worthless outside of Germany, therefore cost comparisons between national currencies using nominal expenditure are meaningless. When the Reich needed to buy raw materials, for example, from neutral countries, the payment was in gold and only gold."
That the German "Vee" program cost greater than $2 billion U.S. dollars [1945] as stated in the wiki highly questionable. Even far too excessive. Such calculations and assertions hardly unique, even von Braun way too optimistic in his calculation, the cost of one V-2 even in the mass assembly stage way too low!
* "Dr. von Braun’s comparison was unduly optimistic. Actual costs in mass productionof the flying bomb [V-1] and rocket [V-2] were closer to 1,500 Reichsmarks (£125) and 75,000 Reichsmarks (£6,300) apiece respectively."
From the Mare's Nest by David Irving.
"A Brief Summary of Evidence on Comparative Costs of Rockets and Flying Bombs"
All figures here in English pounds!
"There is an unbridgeable gap between the various estimates for the production costs of the two main German secret weapons, but one detail emerges in the clearest possible fashion: for attacking large targets at medium range, the unsophisticated flying bomb was unrivalled for simplicity,economy and efficiency. By 18th March 1945 'Central Works Ltd.,' the Nordhausen rocket factory, had invoiced the German War Office for 5,789 A4 (V-2) rockets produced up to that date, at an average price of about £6,320 each in 1945 money. To this would have to be added the cost of the warhead, raw materials, fuels and control equipment, which the British Ministry of Aircraft Production put at £350; and the rocket’s share in the cost of Peenemünde, built since 1936 at a cost variously estimated between £24,000,000 and £40,000,000. No A4 rocket could thus have cost much less than £12,000 by the time it was delivered to the launching troops . . . The Royal Aircraft Establishment put the flying bomb’s cost, on the other hand, at £115 if built in a British factory, which compares well with the average price paid to the Volkswagen firm for V-1 production at Fallersleben, about £125."
1945 British Pound Sterling = 3,014 US Dollar
1945 GBP = 3,014 USD
That cost merely alone for the mass production assembly style 6,000 V-2 about $100 million U.S. dollars as of 1945.
The total calculation for the "Vee" program including all manufactured V-1 AND the Peenemunde development, research and experimental launch site. Still, far less than costs of the Manhattan Project!
The Reichsmark as Steiner has said not convertible BUT that cost of the V-2 for instance calculated by the British Air Ministry, THEIR scientists and engineers estimating that to build such a missile in terms of English pounds requiring in terms of labor and material equal to such an amount. Roughly correct I might assume.
coolbert.
Wednesday, August 7, 2013
Tuesday, August 6, 2013
Vee III.
This is coolbert:
As commented by Steiner:
"As for the oft-repeated death toll of the 'slave' workers engaged in the production of the V2, how is it that these sophisticated weapons, arguably the most complex machines produced by any nation ever up to that point, were built not only at gunpoint but by presumably skilled workers who were then murdered after the tasks were completed? The fact that such questions are never asked by respectable historians speaks to the neo-Soviet climate of opinion under which we labor."
I too have serious reservations regarding the quality control [QC] as must have been the case for the various "Vee" missiles.
That V-2 missile the absolute state-of-the-art technology and the allegations that much of the construction done by what is described as "slave labor".
More better described as impressed or forced labor. Persons against their will forced to toil under very harsh and unremitting conditions. And not having one single respite from their ordeal, many so the story goes dying in the process, such was the mistreatment.
And yet the product [V-1 & V-2] manufactured in prodigious numbers and for the most part as is the perception functioning quite well even under stressful field conditions.
And so how is this possible? Normally you do not think that laborers forced, impressed, "slave" the product of their labor not being to exacting standards as was needed by the high technology of the "Vee" weaponry.
Indeed, sabotage quite deliberate might well be the order of the day. Workers QC poor in a purposeful manner to impede the German war effort.
From the:
"The Mare’s Nest"
"The War Against Hitler’s Secret ‘Vengeance’ Weapons"
by David Irving.
Extracts, those entries regarding the use of "slave", impressed, or forced labor in the "Vee" weapons manufacture: Thanks in all cases to David Irving.
"Kammler had been authorized to inject convict and slave labour into the project."
"Kammler had already undertaken to supply 16,000 slave labourers. An additional 2,000 German technicians were required to supervise production"
"Sawatzki, the factory’s brilliant production planner,appealed to the SS and to Lieutenant-General Kammler for a further 1,800 convicts to offset his crippling labour shortage"
"the underground caverns being excavated by SS General Kammler’s convicts at Traunsee (Austria) for the A4’s Cement project"
"When von Braun visited the Central Works . . .slave labourers and convicts were already at work. Security was strict."
AND concerns for QC did exist:
"Three more rockets fired that month failed because of faulty servos and leaking oxygen leads. General Kammler resolved to send a senior engineer to investigate 'defects in manufacture found at the launching site.'”
Convicts as that term understood in the Third Reich either common criminals OR political.
Forced labor from a variety of nations, France, Italy, eastern Europe, Russians, etc.
That "Vee" weapon work force evidently predominantly forced labor BUT there also on the scene a large number of skilled German technicians. It is the latter that did the QC of components and final assembly of the missiles themselves?
"Black boxes" which components were attached to for a GO or NO-GO test? And woe to those forced laborers that had built a missile component found to be defective.
Kammler again that highest ranking Nazi official not accounted for in the aftermath of the war, disappeared and never seen again.
coolbert.
As commented by Steiner:
"As for the oft-repeated death toll of the 'slave' workers engaged in the production of the V2, how is it that these sophisticated weapons, arguably the most complex machines produced by any nation ever up to that point, were built not only at gunpoint but by presumably skilled workers who were then murdered after the tasks were completed? The fact that such questions are never asked by respectable historians speaks to the neo-Soviet climate of opinion under which we labor."
I too have serious reservations regarding the quality control [QC] as must have been the case for the various "Vee" missiles.
That V-2 missile the absolute state-of-the-art technology and the allegations that much of the construction done by what is described as "slave labor".
More better described as impressed or forced labor. Persons against their will forced to toil under very harsh and unremitting conditions. And not having one single respite from their ordeal, many so the story goes dying in the process, such was the mistreatment.
And yet the product [V-1 & V-2] manufactured in prodigious numbers and for the most part as is the perception functioning quite well even under stressful field conditions.
And so how is this possible? Normally you do not think that laborers forced, impressed, "slave" the product of their labor not being to exacting standards as was needed by the high technology of the "Vee" weaponry.
Indeed, sabotage quite deliberate might well be the order of the day. Workers QC poor in a purposeful manner to impede the German war effort.
From the:
"The Mare’s Nest"
"The War Against Hitler’s Secret ‘Vengeance’ Weapons"
by David Irving.
Extracts, those entries regarding the use of "slave", impressed, or forced labor in the "Vee" weapons manufacture: Thanks in all cases to David Irving.
"Kammler had been authorized to inject convict and slave labour into the project."
"Kammler had already undertaken to supply 16,000 slave labourers. An additional 2,000 German technicians were required to supervise production"
"Sawatzki, the factory’s brilliant production planner,appealed to the SS and to Lieutenant-General Kammler for a further 1,800 convicts to offset his crippling labour shortage"
"the underground caverns being excavated by SS General Kammler’s convicts at Traunsee (Austria) for the A4’s Cement project"
"When von Braun visited the Central Works . . .slave labourers and convicts were already at work. Security was strict."
AND concerns for QC did exist:
"Three more rockets fired that month failed because of faulty servos and leaking oxygen leads. General Kammler resolved to send a senior engineer to investigate 'defects in manufacture found at the launching site.'”
Convicts as that term understood in the Third Reich either common criminals OR political.
Forced labor from a variety of nations, France, Italy, eastern Europe, Russians, etc.
That "Vee" weapon work force evidently predominantly forced labor BUT there also on the scene a large number of skilled German technicians. It is the latter that did the QC of components and final assembly of the missiles themselves?
"Black boxes" which components were attached to for a GO or NO-GO test? And woe to those forced laborers that had built a missile component found to be defective.
Kammler again that highest ranking Nazi official not accounted for in the aftermath of the war, disappeared and never seen again.
coolbert.
Monday, August 5, 2013
Vee II.
This is coolbert:
Again from a comment to the blog by Steiner:
"Finally, the whole V1/V2 narrative has been completely distorted by post-war commentators with an agenda other than historical accuracy. “V” stands for Vergeltung, “revenge”, these were psychological weapons first and foremost, a means, however insignificant, for Germany to strike back at the Allies after, for example, the conventional bombing of Great Britain had ceased years before while the round-the-clock pounding of the Reich continued and intensified."
Add also to that V1 and V2 missile vengeance weaponry the V-3. The long-range super-gun the purpose of which was strictly to bombard London with a barrage of big-bore artillery rounds.
Destroyed and placed hors de combat even before the first shot fired in retaliation on the English capital city.
"The V-3 (Vergeltungswaffe 3) was a German World War II supergun working on the multi-charge principle whereby secondary propellant charges are fired to add velocity to a projectile."
"The weapon was planned to be used to bombard London from two large bunkers in the Pas-de-Calais region of northern France, but they were rendered unusable by Allied bombing raids before completion."
"The project intended to use two batteries to crush London under a barrage of hundreds of shells per hour, shells of 140 kilograms (310 lb) with an explosive charge of 25 kilograms (55 lb)."
"The guns would not be movable, and would be permanently aimed at London."
"The plans were to have the first battery of five gun tubes ready for March 1944, and the full complex of 25 gun tubes by 1 October 1944 . . .The site was finally put out of commission on 6 July 1944, when bombers of RAF Bomber Command's 617 Squadron attacked using 5,400-kilogram (12,000 lb) 'Tallboy' deep-penetration bombs."
Those V-3 destroyed and hors de combat but not entirely so! A second set of such guns placed into operation and actually employed in combat that city of Luxembourg subjected to bombardment! This I was not aware of.
"Two similar guns were used to bombard Luxembourg from December 1944 to February 1945."
And Steiner is correct. The military value of these Vee weaponry negligible the psychological value paramount BUT again valuable resources wasted in the process.
coolbert.
Again from a comment to the blog by Steiner:
"Finally, the whole V1/V2 narrative has been completely distorted by post-war commentators with an agenda other than historical accuracy. “V” stands for Vergeltung, “revenge”, these were psychological weapons first and foremost, a means, however insignificant, for Germany to strike back at the Allies after, for example, the conventional bombing of Great Britain had ceased years before while the round-the-clock pounding of the Reich continued and intensified."
Add also to that V1 and V2 missile vengeance weaponry the V-3. The long-range super-gun the purpose of which was strictly to bombard London with a barrage of big-bore artillery rounds.
Destroyed and placed hors de combat even before the first shot fired in retaliation on the English capital city.
"The V-3 (Vergeltungswaffe 3) was a German World War II supergun working on the multi-charge principle whereby secondary propellant charges are fired to add velocity to a projectile."
"The weapon was planned to be used to bombard London from two large bunkers in the Pas-de-Calais region of northern France, but they were rendered unusable by Allied bombing raids before completion."
"The project intended to use two batteries to crush London under a barrage of hundreds of shells per hour, shells of 140 kilograms (310 lb) with an explosive charge of 25 kilograms (55 lb)."
"The guns would not be movable, and would be permanently aimed at London."
"The plans were to have the first battery of five gun tubes ready for March 1944, and the full complex of 25 gun tubes by 1 October 1944 . . .The site was finally put out of commission on 6 July 1944, when bombers of RAF Bomber Command's 617 Squadron attacked using 5,400-kilogram (12,000 lb) 'Tallboy' deep-penetration bombs."
Those V-3 destroyed and hors de combat but not entirely so! A second set of such guns placed into operation and actually employed in combat that city of Luxembourg subjected to bombardment! This I was not aware of.
"Two similar guns were used to bombard Luxembourg from December 1944 to February 1945."
And Steiner is correct. The military value of these Vee weaponry negligible the psychological value paramount BUT again valuable resources wasted in the process.
coolbert.
Vee I.
This is coolbert:
Here begins a series of blog entries based on comments by Maximex and Steiner.
"German raw material shortages of all. Only lignite was enough throughout the war." - - Maximex.
"Steiner said..."
There is so much nonsense here that one hardly knows where to begin.
[Steiner referring to blog entry Antwerp II.]
"The Luftwaffe did not lack for combat aircraft, nearly thirty thousand were produced in 1944, what was missing as with all the service branches was the fuel to train and conduct missions. After the devastating Leuna and Ploesti raids in the first half of 1944, the Reich simply ran out of gas"
Saturation bombing of those synthetic fuel plants such as Leuna denying the Luftwaffe [and all other services as well] of previous fuel. Aviators not having AVGAS [aviation gasoline] not able to either fly missions or train.
That plant at Leuna processing lignite [brown coal] process into fuel a major objective and target of the allied air forces, saturation bombing the order of the day:
As described by the wiki and copied in entirety:
"The IG Farben Leuna works . . . was Nazi Germany's second largest synthetic oil plant and second biggest chemical operation. Leuna was the first plant to test the Bergius process that synthesized oil products from lignite (brown coal tar in 1944).Leuna . . . employed 35,000 workers (including 10,000 prisoners and slave laborers). The 14th Flak Division responsible for protecting Leuna had 28,000 troops, 18,000 RAD personnel, 6,000 male and 3,050 female auxiliaries, 900 Hungarian and Italian 'volunteers', 3,600 Russian Hiwis, and 3,000 others, thus making up a total of 62,550 persons. More than 19,000 of Leuna's workers were members of the air raid protection organization which operated over 600 radar-directed guns (the fire-fighting force consisted of 5,000 men and women)."
Albert Speer in his memoirs relating that a one million man army with impedimenta was needed to defend against the allied aerial strategic bombing offensive. That number of one million includes all day and night fighter pilots and ground crews, searchlight battery troops, air wardens, fire fighters, radar picket operators, communication personnel. Everyone! For merely Leuna alone the number of personnel devoted to AIR DEFENSE in the most general sense massive.
"A total of 6,552 bomber sorties over 20 Eighth Air Force and 2 RAF attacks dropped 18,328 tons of bombs on Leuna. As the most heavily defended industrial target in Europe, Leuna would become so dark from flak, German smoke pots, and exploding oil tanks that 'we had no idea how close our bombs came to the target.' (Tom Landry, B-17 co-pilot and later Dallas Cowboy coach). On clear days, only 29% of the bombs aimed at Leuna landed inside the plant gates; on radar raids the number dropped to 5.1%."
Strategic aerial "pinpoint" bombing not so "pinpoint" And those figures typical from the era of the Second World War [WW2]. That dropping of a bomb in the proverbial pickle barrel from 30,000 feet [10,000 meters] only under the most absolutely ideal of conditions and maybe not even then!!
coolbert.
Here begins a series of blog entries based on comments by Maximex and Steiner.
"German raw material shortages of all. Only lignite was enough throughout the war." - - Maximex.
"Steiner said..."
There is so much nonsense here that one hardly knows where to begin.
[Steiner referring to blog entry Antwerp II.]
"The Luftwaffe did not lack for combat aircraft, nearly thirty thousand were produced in 1944, what was missing as with all the service branches was the fuel to train and conduct missions. After the devastating Leuna and Ploesti raids in the first half of 1944, the Reich simply ran out of gas"
Saturation bombing of those synthetic fuel plants such as Leuna denying the Luftwaffe [and all other services as well] of previous fuel. Aviators not having AVGAS [aviation gasoline] not able to either fly missions or train.
That plant at Leuna processing lignite [brown coal] process into fuel a major objective and target of the allied air forces, saturation bombing the order of the day:
As described by the wiki and copied in entirety:
"The IG Farben Leuna works . . . was Nazi Germany's second largest synthetic oil plant and second biggest chemical operation. Leuna was the first plant to test the Bergius process that synthesized oil products from lignite (brown coal tar in 1944).Leuna . . . employed 35,000 workers (including 10,000 prisoners and slave laborers). The 14th Flak Division responsible for protecting Leuna had 28,000 troops, 18,000 RAD personnel, 6,000 male and 3,050 female auxiliaries, 900 Hungarian and Italian 'volunteers', 3,600 Russian Hiwis, and 3,000 others, thus making up a total of 62,550 persons. More than 19,000 of Leuna's workers were members of the air raid protection organization which operated over 600 radar-directed guns (the fire-fighting force consisted of 5,000 men and women)."
Albert Speer in his memoirs relating that a one million man army with impedimenta was needed to defend against the allied aerial strategic bombing offensive. That number of one million includes all day and night fighter pilots and ground crews, searchlight battery troops, air wardens, fire fighters, radar picket operators, communication personnel. Everyone! For merely Leuna alone the number of personnel devoted to AIR DEFENSE in the most general sense massive.
"A total of 6,552 bomber sorties over 20 Eighth Air Force and 2 RAF attacks dropped 18,328 tons of bombs on Leuna. As the most heavily defended industrial target in Europe, Leuna would become so dark from flak, German smoke pots, and exploding oil tanks that 'we had no idea how close our bombs came to the target.' (Tom Landry, B-17 co-pilot and later Dallas Cowboy coach). On clear days, only 29% of the bombs aimed at Leuna landed inside the plant gates; on radar raids the number dropped to 5.1%."
Strategic aerial "pinpoint" bombing not so "pinpoint" And those figures typical from the era of the Second World War [WW2]. That dropping of a bomb in the proverbial pickle barrel from 30,000 feet [10,000 meters] only under the most absolutely ideal of conditions and maybe not even then!!
coolbert.
Mark 77.
This is coolbert:
That Mark 77 bomb a new one on me. American incendiary weapon.
That replacement for napalm bombs?
That inventory of napalm and napalm bombs from the era of the Vietnam War having been destroyed some time ago.
Napalm considered to be a "diabolical weapon" outlawed! A weapon causing unnecessary suffering.
But incendiary weaponry NOT totally having been discarded.
An American inventory of the Mark 77 bomb existing and having been used in combat during the various Gulf Wars and Middle East conflicts in a SPARING MANNER!
Mark 77 having a fuel mix NOT exactly the same as napalm, but nonetheless incendiary and deadly.
And used according to doctrine and tactical considerations against targets impervious to conventional weapons and employed on a strict basis only against enemy troops where civilians are not present.
So it is said! I would think the film footage of a woman in Islamic dress afire from an incendiary bomb would go viral in seconds.
"The Mark 77 bomb (MK-77) is a US 750-lb (340 kg) air-dropped incendiary bomb carrying 110 U.S. gallons . . . of a fuel gel mix which is the direct successor to napalm."
"The MK-77 is the primary incendiary weapon currently in use by the United States military. Instead of the gasoline, polystyrene, and benzene mixture used in napalm bombs, the MK-77 uses kerosene-based fuel with a lower concentration of benzene . . . The mixture reportedly also contains an oxidizing agent, making it more difficult to put out once ignited"
"Use of aerial incendiary bombs against civilian populations, including against military targets in civilian areas, was banned in the 1980 United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons Protocol III. However the United States reserved the right to use incendiary weapons against military objectives located in concentrations of civilians [under certain exact circumstances]"
This Mark 77 also a bomb NOT allowed for export? An American "use" only? I might think so.
coolbert.
That Mark 77 bomb a new one on me. American incendiary weapon.
That replacement for napalm bombs?
That inventory of napalm and napalm bombs from the era of the Vietnam War having been destroyed some time ago.
Napalm considered to be a "diabolical weapon" outlawed! A weapon causing unnecessary suffering.
But incendiary weaponry NOT totally having been discarded.
An American inventory of the Mark 77 bomb existing and having been used in combat during the various Gulf Wars and Middle East conflicts in a SPARING MANNER!
Mark 77 having a fuel mix NOT exactly the same as napalm, but nonetheless incendiary and deadly.
And used according to doctrine and tactical considerations against targets impervious to conventional weapons and employed on a strict basis only against enemy troops where civilians are not present.
So it is said! I would think the film footage of a woman in Islamic dress afire from an incendiary bomb would go viral in seconds.
"The Mark 77 bomb (MK-77) is a US 750-lb (340 kg) air-dropped incendiary bomb carrying 110 U.S. gallons . . . of a fuel gel mix which is the direct successor to napalm."
"The MK-77 is the primary incendiary weapon currently in use by the United States military. Instead of the gasoline, polystyrene, and benzene mixture used in napalm bombs, the MK-77 uses kerosene-based fuel with a lower concentration of benzene . . . The mixture reportedly also contains an oxidizing agent, making it more difficult to put out once ignited"
"Use of aerial incendiary bombs against civilian populations, including against military targets in civilian areas, was banned in the 1980 United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons Protocol III. However the United States reserved the right to use incendiary weapons against military objectives located in concentrations of civilians [under certain exact circumstances]"
This Mark 77 also a bomb NOT allowed for export? An American "use" only? I might think so.
coolbert.
Friday, August 2, 2013
Antwerp II.
This is coolbert:
Conclusion!
It being acknowledged that the German "Vee" missiles [V-1 and V-2] both those bombardments of first London and then Antwerp having negligible military applicability the entire "Vee" program questionable, even it can be reasonably inferred highly COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE!!
From a variety of sources some amazing stuff:
"those of us who were seriously engaged in the war were very grateful to Wernher von Braun. We knew that each V-2 cost as much to produce as a high-performance fighter airplane. We knew that German forces on the fighting fronts were in desperate need of airplanes, and that the V-2 rockets were doing us no military damage. From our point of view, the V-2 program was almost as good as if Hitler had adopted a policy of unilateral disarmament." - - Freeman Dyson."
Dyson at the time a young British physicist involved in the effort to stymie and defeat the German night fighter defenses using a variety of approaches.
Indeed, even some allied efforts and plans to destroy the launching sites of the V-2 OR a missile actually in flight either counter-productive or as potentially counter-productive, "friendly fire" not always so "friendly":
"On 3 March 1945 the Allies attempted to destroy V-2s and launching equipment in the "Haagse Bos" in The Hague by a large-scale bombardment but due to navigational errors the Bezuidenhout quarter was destroyed, killing 511 Dutch civilians."
"Unlike the V-1, the V-2's speed and trajectory made it practically invulnerable to anti-aircraft guns and fighters, as it dropped from an altitude of 100–110 km (62–68 mi) at up to four times the speed of sound (approximately 3550 km/h). A plan was proposed whereby the missile would be detected by radar, its terminal trajectory calculated, and the area along that trajectory saturated by large-caliber anti-aircraft guns. The plan was dropped after operations research indicated that the likely number of malfunctioning artillery shells falling to the ground would do more damage than the V-2 itself."
That German "Vee" weapons program [both for V-1 and V-2] very expensive, even beyond that for the American Manhattan Project.
"The German V-weapons (V-1 and V-2) cost $3 billion (wartime dollars) and was more costly than the Manhattan Project that produced the atomic bomb ($1.9 billion).in the last 12 months of the war alone resources expended on the V-1 and V-2 missiles might have been sufficient to produce 24,000 addition fighter aircraft. Further problems were an increasing shortage of materials, the loss of manpower to the fighting forces, to be replaced by less-efficient slave laborers, and, of course, the continuing attention of Allied strategic bombers."
"6,048 V-2s were built, at a cost of approximately 100,000 Reichsmarks (GB£2,370,000 (2011)) each [British pounds as of 2011]; 3,225 were launched. SS General Hans Kammler who as an engineer had constructed several concentration camps including Auschwitz had a reputation for brutality and had originated the idea of using concentration camp prisoners as slave laborers in the rocket program. The V-2 is perhaps the only weapon system to have caused more deaths by its production than its deployment."
The American Manhattan Project [a-bomb] AND the B-29 program each costing $2 billion American.
Those V-1 and V-2 constructed under the most harshest of conditions, using forced labor to do so. I have often wondered about quality control for those various components, as rigorous as a methodology as employed by the German I would have to think the laborers [slaves] being worked to death would NOT find any incentive at all to do good work and even be most desirous to sabotage anything they could.
Kammler the SS man in charge of missile manufacture the HIGHEST RANKING NAZI NOT ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE WAR!!
Just one item an indication of the enormous expenditure of scarce resources as was needed by the "Vee" program that amount of fuel alcohol a necessity
"The V-2 consumed a third of Germany fuel alcohol production and major portions of other critical technologies: one V-2 launch required 30 tonnes of potatoes at a time when food was becoming scarce."
Potatoes as used to distill the fuel alcohol. That German citizenry including soldiers doing without food and unable to perform in an adequate fashion, debilitating hunger and malnutrition as result of the "Vee" program!!
This reminiscent of the Great War when the English population going hungry when so much land devoted to the growing of fodder for the never-used cavalry!
It has been suggested too that IF the German had begun their V-1 bombardment of English coastal towns prior to 6 June or even directed a barrage of "buzzbombs" on the landing beaches of Normandy
that Battle of France [1944] might NOT have resulted in inevitable Nazi defeat!
V-1 and V-2 counter-productive and NOT an asset? Devoted readers to the blog can decide for themselves and comment.
coolbert.
Conclusion!
It being acknowledged that the German "Vee" missiles [V-1 and V-2] both those bombardments of first London and then Antwerp having negligible military applicability the entire "Vee" program questionable, even it can be reasonably inferred highly COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE!!
From a variety of sources some amazing stuff:
"those of us who were seriously engaged in the war were very grateful to Wernher von Braun. We knew that each V-2 cost as much to produce as a high-performance fighter airplane. We knew that German forces on the fighting fronts were in desperate need of airplanes, and that the V-2 rockets were doing us no military damage. From our point of view, the V-2 program was almost as good as if Hitler had adopted a policy of unilateral disarmament." - - Freeman Dyson."
Dyson at the time a young British physicist involved in the effort to stymie and defeat the German night fighter defenses using a variety of approaches.
Indeed, even some allied efforts and plans to destroy the launching sites of the V-2 OR a missile actually in flight either counter-productive or as potentially counter-productive, "friendly fire" not always so "friendly":
"On 3 March 1945 the Allies attempted to destroy V-2s and launching equipment in the "Haagse Bos" in The Hague by a large-scale bombardment but due to navigational errors the Bezuidenhout quarter was destroyed, killing 511 Dutch civilians."
"Unlike the V-1, the V-2's speed and trajectory made it practically invulnerable to anti-aircraft guns and fighters, as it dropped from an altitude of 100–110 km (62–68 mi) at up to four times the speed of sound (approximately 3550 km/h). A plan was proposed whereby the missile would be detected by radar, its terminal trajectory calculated, and the area along that trajectory saturated by large-caliber anti-aircraft guns. The plan was dropped after operations research indicated that the likely number of malfunctioning artillery shells falling to the ground would do more damage than the V-2 itself."
That German "Vee" weapons program [both for V-1 and V-2] very expensive, even beyond that for the American Manhattan Project.
"The German V-weapons (V-1 and V-2) cost $3 billion (wartime dollars) and was more costly than the Manhattan Project that produced the atomic bomb ($1.9 billion).in the last 12 months of the war alone resources expended on the V-1 and V-2 missiles might have been sufficient to produce 24,000 addition fighter aircraft. Further problems were an increasing shortage of materials, the loss of manpower to the fighting forces, to be replaced by less-efficient slave laborers, and, of course, the continuing attention of Allied strategic bombers."
"6,048 V-2s were built, at a cost of approximately 100,000 Reichsmarks (GB£2,370,000 (2011)) each [British pounds as of 2011]; 3,225 were launched. SS General Hans Kammler who as an engineer had constructed several concentration camps including Auschwitz had a reputation for brutality and had originated the idea of using concentration camp prisoners as slave laborers in the rocket program. The V-2 is perhaps the only weapon system to have caused more deaths by its production than its deployment."
The American Manhattan Project [a-bomb] AND the B-29 program each costing $2 billion American.
Those V-1 and V-2 constructed under the most harshest of conditions, using forced labor to do so. I have often wondered about quality control for those various components, as rigorous as a methodology as employed by the German I would have to think the laborers [slaves] being worked to death would NOT find any incentive at all to do good work and even be most desirous to sabotage anything they could.
Kammler the SS man in charge of missile manufacture the HIGHEST RANKING NAZI NOT ACCOUNTED FOR IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE WAR!!
Just one item an indication of the enormous expenditure of scarce resources as was needed by the "Vee" program that amount of fuel alcohol a necessity
"The V-2 consumed a third of Germany fuel alcohol production and major portions of other critical technologies: one V-2 launch required 30 tonnes of potatoes at a time when food was becoming scarce."
Potatoes as used to distill the fuel alcohol. That German citizenry including soldiers doing without food and unable to perform in an adequate fashion, debilitating hunger and malnutrition as result of the "Vee" program!!
This reminiscent of the Great War when the English population going hungry when so much land devoted to the growing of fodder for the never-used cavalry!
It has been suggested too that IF the German had begun their V-1 bombardment of English coastal towns prior to 6 June or even directed a barrage of "buzzbombs" on the landing beaches of Normandy
that Battle of France [1944] might NOT have resulted in inevitable Nazi defeat!
V-1 and V-2 counter-productive and NOT an asset? Devoted readers to the blog can decide for themselves and comment.
coolbert.
Thursday, August 1, 2013
Antwerp I.
This is coolbert:
I think most devoted readers to the blog are familiar with the Second "Blitz" of London during the Second World War [WW2].
That months long "Vee" weapon offensive commencing in the that week following the Normandy Invasion.
A concerted bombardment by thousands of V-1 ["Buzzbombs"] and V-2 [ballistic missiles] missiles, the objective to terrorize the English population and if possible level the British capital city.
That "concerted bombardment" countered by a variety of means to include:
* Massed anti-aircraft-artillery [AAA].
* Barrage balloons.
* Fast fighter interceptors.
* Bombing of the launch sites.
* Deception [XX counter-intelligence].
Thanks to the magazine "AFTER THE BATTLE" number # 57 and the article "ANTWERP 'CITY OF SUDDEN DEATH'" by Achiel Rely THIS SECOND "VEE" WEAPON BOMBARDMENT LESS KNOWN.
That port facility of Antwerp vital to the allied war effort, denial of same an obvious objective of German military planners.
During a six month period beginning in the fall of 1944 the Province of Antwerp [not merely the city proper or the port facility] subjected to attack by German "Vee" weaponry, the bombardment to include:
V-1: 4,248.
V-2: 1,712.
These V-1 and V-2 attacks not discriminate, the weapons very inaccurate, casualties about 80 % civilian, albeit the port of Antwerp the main target.
"In the port itself a constant stream of ships bringing in supplies for the allied forces was handled and unloaded by thousands of dockers. THE BOMBARDMENT NEVER SERIOUSLY AFFECTED ITS [the port] WORKING." [my emphasis.]
That V-2 of course there being no counter-measure that not being the case with the V-1, those tactics of fast fighter-interceptor and massed anti-aircraft-artillery [AAA] the allies able to mobilize an array of six hundred AAA guns American and British both AND continual bombing of launch sites effective to some degree in mitigating the flying bomb [V-1] onslaught.
That most dramatic and tragic incident of the Antwerp "Vee" weapon bombardment the direct hit by a V-2 on the Rex cinema. Many hundreds dead, bodies and body parts being pulled out of the wreckage for two days afterwards.
To be continued.
coolbert.
I think most devoted readers to the blog are familiar with the Second "Blitz" of London during the Second World War [WW2].
That months long "Vee" weapon offensive commencing in the that week following the Normandy Invasion.
A concerted bombardment by thousands of V-1 ["Buzzbombs"] and V-2 [ballistic missiles] missiles, the objective to terrorize the English population and if possible level the British capital city.
That "concerted bombardment" countered by a variety of means to include:
* Massed anti-aircraft-artillery [AAA].
* Barrage balloons.
* Fast fighter interceptors.
* Bombing of the launch sites.
* Deception [XX counter-intelligence].
Thanks to the magazine "AFTER THE BATTLE" number # 57 and the article "ANTWERP 'CITY OF SUDDEN DEATH'" by Achiel Rely THIS SECOND "VEE" WEAPON BOMBARDMENT LESS KNOWN.
That port facility of Antwerp vital to the allied war effort, denial of same an obvious objective of German military planners.
During a six month period beginning in the fall of 1944 the Province of Antwerp [not merely the city proper or the port facility] subjected to attack by German "Vee" weaponry, the bombardment to include:
V-1: 4,248.
V-2: 1,712.
These V-1 and V-2 attacks not discriminate, the weapons very inaccurate, casualties about 80 % civilian, albeit the port of Antwerp the main target.
This image purportedly of the Rex cinema in the aftermath of a V-2 direct hit. The journalist Arnaud de Borchgrave for two days helping to pull bodies and body parts of the destroyed building.
"In the port itself a constant stream of ships bringing in supplies for the allied forces was handled and unloaded by thousands of dockers. THE BOMBARDMENT NEVER SERIOUSLY AFFECTED ITS [the port] WORKING." [my emphasis.]
That V-2 of course there being no counter-measure that not being the case with the V-1, those tactics of fast fighter-interceptor and massed anti-aircraft-artillery [AAA] the allies able to mobilize an array of six hundred AAA guns American and British both AND continual bombing of launch sites effective to some degree in mitigating the flying bomb [V-1] onslaught.
That most dramatic and tragic incident of the Antwerp "Vee" weapon bombardment the direct hit by a V-2 on the Rex cinema. Many hundreds dead, bodies and body parts being pulled out of the wreckage for two days afterwards.
To be continued.
coolbert.
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