Room 101.

This is coolbert:

"'The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world,' It 'varies from individual to individual. It may be burial alive, or death by fire, or by drowning, or by impalement, or fifty other deaths. There are cases where it is some quite trivial thing, not even fatal.'" - - Orwell - - 1984.

"'In this type of war [counter-terrorism], the single best form of intelligence will be the hostile interrogation' - - Shlomo Gazit - - AMAN."

Here, from 2003, are two items from the Atlantic magazine. Dealing with the subject of torture. Euphemistically [?] referred to as "coercive measures".

"Mark Bowden – The Dark Art of Interrogation"

The article itself.

"The Truth About Torture"

An interview with the author - - Mark Bowden.

Again - - material from 2003 - - but NOT dated! If anything - - as germane now as it was in the days immediately in the aftermath of 9/11. AND ALWAYS WILL BE TOO?

"Coercive methods" as opposed to torture. This is the question? Torture has been defined [?] in the commonly accepted sense and legal too [?] as pain inflicted that can cause PERMANENT LASTING INJURY! Burning with a red-hot iron, pulling out the finger nails or teeth, crushing the private parts in a vice, etc.

"Coercive methods" of themselves do not cause permanent injury? Left standing for days on end, isolation, being subjected to extremes of heat or cold, forced sleeplessness, etc., do not leave PERMANENT LASTING INJURY?

This is the first question that needs to be answered, the definition itself of "torture"?

Secondly, are the Al Qaeda unlawful combatants captured and subject to hostile interrogation entitled to protections under the Geneva Convention?

Traditionally, and legally too, combatants not wearing a uniform or badge of rank identifiable at a distance, not carrying their weapons openly, and not following the laws of land warfare have NOT been considered legal and lawful combatants. In modern parlance, such persons are TERRORISTS TO WHICH THE ORDINARY LEGAL SAFEGUARDS DO NOT APPLY!

My own perception is that those in authority, when they make decisions, whatever that decision maybe, to torture of not to torture or apply the "methods", are in the habit of erring on the side of they perceive as safety, i.e., better to do this hostile interrogation, legal questions be damned, and let future generation judge as they will!

coolbert.

Waterboarding - - SERE!

This is coolbert:

Here, from only today:

"Defense Department Won’t Say Whether U.S. Troops Still Undergo ‘Water boarding’ in Training"

"(CNSNews.com) – Though water boarding is banned as an interrogation technique for members of al Qaeda and other terror suspects, the Defense Department will not say whether U.S. military soldiers undergo water boarding in their training, as discussed in a 2002 government memo made public last week."

“'The mission [of SERE] is to train military members to survive an isolation event,' said Kathleen Jabs, spokeswoman for the U.S. Joint Forces Command, the division of the Defense Department that oversees the SERE program."

"However, she would not specify whether water boarding is still used on troops during training."

Right - - exactly!! All this brouhaha about water boarding has raised some interesting questions. IS WATER BOARDING STILL BEING USED AS PART OF THE U.S. SERE TRAINING PROGRAM!!??

Select American military personnel, airmen, Special Forces, rangers, SEALS, etc., persons who run an elevated risk of capture by the enemy, ACTUALLY ARE WATER BOARDED AS PART OF THEIR TRAINING!! Water boarding for some time, decades even, has always been included as part of the SERE course?

The question has to be asked - - well, if it is illegal to water board captured enemy terrorists, then too, is it now, OR EVEN HAS IT BEEN - - ILLEGAL ALL ALONG - - to waterboard American military service personnel - - EVEN IF ONLY AS PART OF A TRAINING PROGRAM??!!

And I am also wondering also about the other elements of SERE as well. Exposure to extremes of heat or cold, forced nakedness [a male standing naked in front of a crowd of jeering, laughing females, the latter pointing and commenting in a ribald way!!] etc.

These too all constitute torture as well? Even well meaning training has been for decades, ILLEGAL ALL ALONG!!??

Can anyone answer this question? Or should I say, is the question even being asked?

And U.S. troops/sailors/airmen from this point forward are no longer subject to mistreatment during SERE, EVEN IF BY "FRIENDLIES" AND EVEN IF IT IS JUST "TRAINING"!!

It would seem to me that water boarding as part of training, and many other aspects of SERE as well - - are now ILLEGAL, AND HAVE BEEN RENDERED NULL AND VOID!! You can talk about it in class, and maybe see historic film footage of what will occur to you, but that is about all!!

As for my self, well, you can water board me all you want, but PLEASE, no nakedness in front of a bunch of women. I could not stand the laughter!!

coolbert.